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Post by darkgreenmeme on May 31, 2016 10:26:43 GMT
I thought it might be a good idea to start this thread so we can discuss/argue checkpoint placement techniques in races.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 10:54:36 GMT
Lol.
Well, I dislike double checkpoints when it's not necessary. Straight line, no turns, no need for many checkpoints. Basic rule, as much as needed, as less as possible. Visibility should not be the highest priority if the track just follows the road. Makes it more like a checkpoint challenge and actually slows you down. Rather more props for better visibility than too many checkpoints. For turns, you should be able to follow your racing line. If this is not possible, in most of the cases, the track isn't suitable. Needs to be done different then. I decided to not use the same part of the track twice in a lap. You just can't place it how it is supposed to be. Makes it a bad race. In the end this is why GP races all use the same roads and the only real variety you can now add to GP style is by changing parts of the original map with floating platforms.
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Post by darkgreenmeme on May 31, 2016 11:42:25 GMT
My design goal for checkpoints is that each checkpoint ideally should be placed line of sight from each other in normal (not compressed) first person view. A player should never, ever have to look at the mini-map when racing it for the first time to confirm that they are going the right way. All the checkpoints before sharper turns should be checked to see if at racing speeds the driver has enough time to recognize and prepare/slow down for the turn. "Oh, I was supposed to turn back there?!" checkpoints probably frustrate me the most. I've ended up scrapping whole races because I couldn't figure out how to place the checkpoints for a turn after a straight. Probably the most problematic turn in this regard is eastbound on Route 68 turning right onto Tongva Valley road. Sure, I could use barriers, but I like for my races to work for traffic.
Races are "checkpoint" challenges, only if the creator doesn't test that they are positioned on reasonable race lines. The target area of land race checkpoint is about 3 lanes wide (larger than the visible corona), I usually place the checkpoint so it straddles two lanes, for instance on Route 68, a checkpoint placed on the yellow line will be hit by driving on either lane, and about half of the paved emergency lane on either side.
Off-Road/Air Races: every creator ALWAYS should check the respawns on every single checkpoint that they can drive/fly out of them. You should test it several times, because there are normally three respawn points for each checkpoint, and it shouldn't be luck that a player gets the one that works instead of the other two. Nothing will piss off players more than getting stuck in a respawn trap at a checkpoint.
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Post by Tails Prower on Jun 30, 2016 10:00:38 GMT
Off-Road/Air Races: every creator ALWAYS should check the respawns on every single checkpoint that they can drive/fly out of them. You should test it several times, because there are normally three respawn points for each checkpoint, and it shouldn't be luck that a player gets the one that works instead of the other two. Nothing will piss off players more than getting stuck in a respawn trap at a checkpoint. Entering the discussion but this is so true and something I always try to do when the new vehicles are added to the creator. I have one air race called Terminal Plight! which is basically a scaled down version of the last Flight School mission as a lap around the airport/docks area and is the one I'm having to do the most work on following June's update... I'm opening this up here and I'll add a link to the job as it is at present later today. As you say there are three respawn points for each checkpoint which I never realised until they added the Nimbus to the game this month. The problem with the race is that I have a checkpoint placed at the start and end of the cranes in the docks just beside where Simeon's car deliveries take place, every jet can fly through these as I have tested them all but the Nimbus wings make it quite tricky to get through perfectly and less experienced players will end up crashing on this one if they have to respawn (game usually spawns you on top of the crates or crash into the cranes. As I see it the only thing I can think to overcome the problem and retain the difficult low fly challenge through the docks is to put the checkpoint well before the dock and one just at the end but this means players can effectively skip the dangerous part of not crashing into the cranes. Some ideas would be appreciated!
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Post by nittydon on Jun 30, 2016 12:16:27 GMT
If your in need of any help this topic was started along time ago but covers all points well gtaforums.com/topic/695643-checkpoint-placement-guide/Alternatively I am happy to help with any advice for car or bike races, if you need help on air or sea I have only made a handful (1 air, 3 sea) so probably others here better equipped to help Also I find it a lot more helpful to run a race I am unsure of with close friends and get their feedback because testing in the creator you are only really testing your own race lines, and also creator blindness to some problems can occur Also with Larson, please never use more than 1 checkpoint for a corner .............. ever !!
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Post by Tails Prower on Jun 30, 2016 13:57:45 GMT
Yes that's the guide I've been using but I think I have come up with a fix for this race though I'll still upload the video showing before and after to help the discussion.
I discovered though these rules of checkpoint placement clearly do not apply to Rockstar's own work as I discovered last night racing the Nimbus on a rockstar race in Raton Canyon one of the narrow spawn points the plane crashes every time you respawn.
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Post by darkgreenmeme on Jun 30, 2016 14:43:50 GMT
Yes that's the guide I've been using but I think I have come up with a fix for this race though I'll still upload the video showing before and after to help the discussion. I discovered though these rules of checkpoint placement clearly do not apply to Rockstar's own work as I discovered last night racing the Nimbus on a rockstar race in Raton Canyon one of the narrow spawn points the plane crashes every time you respawn. I'm thinking that the Nimbus might be too big for some races.
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Post by Tails Prower on Jun 30, 2016 14:51:41 GMT
Yes that's the guide I've been using but I think I have come up with a fix for this race though I'll still upload the video showing before and after to help the discussion. I discovered though these rules of checkpoint placement clearly do not apply to Rockstar's own work as I discovered last night racing the Nimbus on a rockstar race in Raton Canyon one of the narrow spawn points the plane crashes every time you respawn. I'm thinking that the Nimbus might be too big for some races. Yes, agree here. I only just realised yesterday that the Titan is not a vehicle we can fly in races probably for this very reason
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Post by nittydon on Jun 30, 2016 16:08:06 GMT
R* do not know the art of proper CP placement !! honestly feel spoilt playing great user races to the extent that R*'s efforts now seem feeble
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Post by Tails Prower on Jul 8, 2016 20:09:01 GMT
Here is the video of the race in question as it stands now.
I hope to post the Nimbus version of this before end of the weekend so you can see how tight it is.
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Post by darkgreenmeme on Jul 9, 2016 2:57:50 GMT
I think a Nimbus on the course would require some miraculous flying.
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Post by Tails Prower on Jul 11, 2016 12:15:42 GMT
I think a Nimbus on the course would require some miraculous flying. That's the whole idea of the race and why I called it Terminal Plight! because I designed it to weed out the good flyers from the bad ones. I figure if you can fly through this course without dying then you must be a good pilot. As always I ran out of time at the weekend again so I will try to show me flying the Nimbus through this course at some stage during the week, it certainly tests you as a pilot.
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Post by darkgreenmeme on Jul 13, 2016 18:54:09 GMT
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Post by darkgreenmeme on Sept 4, 2016 21:44:53 GMT
One point I would like to make about using line-of-sight checkpoints (my usual style) is that the displayed length of the course is much more accurate (though not completely) and you can make meaningful average speed calculations from the course length value.
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